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| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 37, 23 February 2004 |
Welcome to this year's 8th edition of DistroWatch Weekly.
Content:
- Understanding live CDs
- Released last week
- Upcoming releases: LGIS Linux
- Get a DistroWatch T-shirt
- New additions: UserLinux, QiLinux
- New on the waiting list: Ed's Debian, PHP Solutions live, De2, Tupiserver, Debian-Extra-CD-Project, slavix, Bioknoppix, Kannery, Kazit, Dizinha
- Reader feedback: downloading ISO images
Understanding live CDs
How many live CDs have you tried? And which of them do you keep or recommend to others?
While the purpose of most Linux live CDs is to use them in emergencies or for demonstartion, there is one category of them that is sometimes misunderstood - distributions where the live-CD part is of secondary importance. Good examples of these are MEPIS Linux, PCLinuxOS or GoboLinux. They are intended as full-blown distributions for installation on hard disks, not just as live CDs. The live-CD part of them is really just a bonus, a sophisticated graphical installer which allows users to try the product before making a commitment to the full installation. This is a radical departure from the "traditional" installers, where users had to go through a lengthy installation process just to find out that perhaps the product doesn't meet their needs.
Are we seeing a trend here? It is becoming common among new distributions to start with a live CD, then provide a simple script or a full installation program, to copy the content of the CD onto a hard disk partition. Once done, users can boot into it and continue using the operating system as if it was installed with a traditional installer. The advantages of these distributions are clear: besides the try-before-you-commit benefit, the CD is still available for emergency situations, as well as for carrying it around and using it to load a familiar operating system on computers when away from home or office.
To re-iterate the above point, take this message as noted on the PCLinuxOS mailing list, a developer's response to a query about the distribution's continuous upgradability after the initial installation. Would each new release have to be re-installed or are the developers planning a regular upgrade path for the users of the distribution? Will it be easy to keep it up-to-date with new software?
"That is the goal is a continual update path for PCLinuxOS. Install once and update often as new programs become available. I just hate having people do a clean install everytime a new release comes out."
The above makes it quite clear that PCLinuxOS is not just a live CD. It is a distribution in its own right, a product that serves a double-purpose of being a full distribution and a live CD.
How long before all the major distributions start re-writing their Anacondas, YaSTs or (heavens forbid) Boot Floppies to include a live CD functionality? Somehow it doesn't seem very likely. Still, with all the extra benefits they would provide to their users, it might some day become a reality.
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| Released Last Week |
K12LTSP Linux 4.0.1
K12LTSP Linux 4.0.1 has been released: "K12LTSP v4.0.1 is officially available for your downloading pleasure. Apt, up2date, and yum repositories have been updated. If you have K12LTSP v4.0.0 already installed, these fine utilities can update you to v4.0.1 without much fuss. Known issues. Reports of serious stability problems with SMP kernels continue. Mission-critical sites are still encouraged to stick with K12LTSP 3.1.2. The Enterprise version of K12LTSP in testing, please help out if you can..." Read the rest of the release announcement.
Damn Small Linux 0.6
Version 0.6 of Damn Small Linux has been released. From the release notes: "New kernel and modules supporting more hardware (based on Knoppix 3.3); implemented space saving busybox; implemented space saving by dpkg-restore now restores not only package structure but also related programs; improved backup/restore to a specific device (hard drive, etc); improved ppp dial scripts (no more manual edits); improved hard drive install script to pass fb800x600 screen size, also improved speed of installation; menu reorganisation for easier navigation; new /opt/bootlocal.sh for user required misc system startup commands..."
clusterKNOPPIX 3.3-2004-02-16
This is a new release of clusterKNOPPIX, based on the version of Knoppix released earlier this week. From the changelog: "clusterKNOPPIX_V3.3-2004-02-16-EN-cl1 - 2004-02-17. Sync with latest Knoppix release; upgraded to gomd 0.2beta; fixed openmosix restart script; fixed terminalserver bug (chown problem); fixed atmel wlan drivers; added french openmosix terminalserver translation and a new parameter that allows to export the Knoppix image from disk instead of running from CD-ROM (to allow speed-ups) both patches by lbdan."
SystemRescueCD 0.2.11
A new version of SystemRescueCD is now available. Changes: "SystemRescueCD 0.2.11. Updated EVMS to 2.2.2 patched; added Dban bootdisk (tool that wipes all data of a computer); added pppconfig (configure PPP); added BashBurn (script that make CD burning easier); put the manual (PDF, HTML) on the CD-ROM; updated partimage to 0.6.4 final; updated Clam-AntiVirus to 0.66; updated Samba to 3.0.2a; updated Reiserfsprogs to 3.6.12; many minor updates."
Feather Linux 0.3.6
Feather Linux continues with a rapid release schedule. From the 0.3.6 changelog: "Added bvi, isapnptools; changed some USB detection on USB boot; changed emelfm settings so they suit Feather; changed Opera download site; reinstalled some Debian packages so apt-get works a little better; changed Scite colour-coding; removed Busybox vi and added elvis-tiny; added Thunderbird and Java scripts; edited HD install script so Feather doesn't autologin; removed winbindd."
KnoppiXMAME 1.2.1
A bug fix version of KnoppiXMAME, a bootable CD for playing MAME games, has been released. From the release notes: "This release should be no different from 1.2 if you have used that version. Press F1 for help at the boot prompt. Type in 'addroms' to try out the new automated CD remastering utility. It works with ROMs on all filesystems. NTFS is still experimental, but should work thanks to captive. This is a small interim point-release. Some people had problems uncompressing the .bz2 file, so I returned to a regular .iso. A bug was also fixed with home directory settings not persisting when a remaster of a remaster was made with 'addroms'."
cAos 1.0
The first stable release of cAos is out: "Finally... cAos-1.0 has been released. All of the blocking/showstopping bugs have been resolved, and many of the developers are already using it in production. With that said, keep in mind there are many packages outside of the core that are still stabilizing (thus you may see frequent updates). Please post bug reports to bugzilla so that they may be resolved quickly and don't fall between the cracks." To install cAos, you will need to download its installation ISO image, called "Cinch", and follow these instructions to install a core system. Additional packages can then be installed with 'yum'. cAos is a Red Hat-based distribution with the goal to provide a stable operating system for enterprises; find out more at caosity.org.
Buffalo Linux 1.1.4
Buffalo Linux 1.1.4 has been released: "Highlighted in this release are: added kernel 2.6.3; new automatic patch and upgrade feature; over 30 package upgrades, including gcc-3.3.3, module-init-tools-0.9.14 (supports 2.4 and 2.6 kernels), samba-3.0.2a, perl-5.8.3. The new 1.1.4 ISOs are available on the Buffalo web sites. Additionally, users of 1.1.3 can upgrade to 1.1.4 by installing a 45MB package." See the full changelog for additional information.
Kurumin Linux 2.20
A new release of Brazil's Kurumin Linux is out. The main highlight of version 2.20 is the newly developed "Clica-aKi", a central control panel integrating various configuration tasks, including network setup, magic icons, installation and management of servers, configuration of keyboards, mice, sound cards, printers and other hardware. Detailed explanation, together with screenshots can be found in the official release announcement (in Portuguese).
Screenshot: Kurumin Linux 2.20 with "magic icons"
(full image size 640kB)
Development releases
Other releases
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
LGIS Linux
The fans of the Ximian Desktop will be pleased to learn that the developers of LGIS Linux are planning a new release, based on Fedora Core: "LGIS GNU/Linux is a Ximianized version of Red Hat Linux, you can see some screenshots here. You can find the ftp, http and BitTorrent links on the project page. Yes I'm working on the Fedora based version already :)" More in this story on FootNotes.
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| Web Site News |
DistroWatch T-shirts
Order your own official DistroWatch T-shirt from Hackerthreads.
New additions
- UserLinux. UserLinux is a GNU/Linux distribution based from Debian, but streamlined to a smaller set of default applications. The UserLinux variants (server, desktop, etc.) will be freely available in both source and ISO formats. Application specifics are being worked out right now. The desktop environment will be GNOME featuring OpenOffice.org for word processing. The server configuration will include Apache and Postfix. UserLinux will be complemented by a network of service providers offering certification, support, and professional services.
- QiLinux. QiLinux is a Linux distribution completely made from scratch in Italy. Its ambitious aim is to integrate the work of the vast community of free software developers in order to create a modern, high-performance, safe and easy-to-use operating system for system administrators and desktop users.
New on the waiting list
- Ed's Xbox Debian GNU/Linux. Ed's Debian is an Xbox-enabled version of the Debian GNU/Linux distribution. It is based on the standard x86 Debian, but the install process - and naturally the boot loader, the kernel and the kernel modules - are all customised for the Xbox.
- PHP Solutions live. PHP Solutions live is a bootable Linux distribution which makes working with *.php files a breeze. It was created for people who want to run and test scripts in a new environment (PHP Solutions live version 0.9.5b3 contains PHP 5.0.0 beta3) without modifying an existing platform.
- De2. De2 is a community-developed Indonesian Linux distribution based on Debian (web site in Bahasa Indonesia).
- Tupiserver Linux. Tupiserver Linux is a Brazilian server-oriented distribution based on Kurumin Linux (web site in Portuguese).
- Debian-Extra-CD-Project. The Debian-Extra-CD-Project (DECP) is trying to provide an offline system with some of the newest Debian packages for desktop systems.
- slavix. slavix is a GNU/Linux distribution based on Morphix, Knoppix and Debian. It is intended for desktop users new to Linux. Slavix is a live CD, which means that it is very easy to try without having to install anything on your computer.
- Bioknoppix. Bioknoppix is a customised distribution of Knoppix live CD. With this distribution you just boot from the CD and you have a fully functional Linux OS distribution with open source applications targeted for the molecular biologist. Beside using some RAM, Bioknoppix doesn't touch the host computer, being ideal for demonstrations, molecular biology students, workshops, etc.
- Kannery. Kannery is a Knoppix-based Hebrew distribution, with several deployment options: hard disk installation from a boot server, thick client, thin client with grid server, and live CD.
- Kazit. Kazit is a Knoppix-based live CD with support for Hebrew (web site in Hebrew).
- Dizinha Linux. Dizinha Linux is a Brazilian Linux distribution based on Kurumin Linux (web site in Portuguese).
DistroWatch database summary
- Number of distributions in the database: 261
- Number of discontinued distributions: 31
- Number of distributions on the waiting list: 66
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| Reader Feedback |
On downloading ISO images
With all the interesting new distribution releases coming out just about every day, it happens on occasion that I get an email from a developer asking me to remove the download links from the news. The request usually comes as a result of the users having consumed the developer's entire monthly bandwidth allocation in just a few hours after the news was published. Thus begins the panic-stricken victim's mad rush to find mirrors or to set up a BitTorrent download.
Let me make one thing clear: DistroWatch is a news site. If you develop a distribution and release it to the public by publishing news about it on your web site, it will be reported on DistroWatch. If you publish a link to an ISO image on your own web site, it will also be mentioned within the news item. That's how news has been reported here for 2.5 years and I have no intention to change that. As several developers have found out, once the news is out, there will be a bandwidth problem.
It's best to be prepared, either by providing a BitTorrent tracker or a several FTP/HTTP mirrors. BitTorrent can solve the problem to some extent, but you need to realise that many users are behind firewalls, where BitTorrent cannot be used. Mirrors are not always easy to find, but places such as ibiblio.org, tuwien.ac.at, sunet.se or planetmirror.com already host a large number of distributions, so a polite request for hosting yours is unlikely to be refused. Another alternative is not to publish the news on your own web site, in which case it will not be published here either (yes, projects with this attitude do exist - take Sorcerer as an example).
The bottom line is: if you are offering ISO images for download, prepare for the onslaught in advance. Don't ever assume that most users will give your product a miss. They won't.
That's all for this week, see you next Monday :-)
Ladislav Bodnar
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| Reader Comment Area | • bittorrent behind firewalls. (by Tatusmi at 2004-02-23 15:52:10 GMT)
just a quick comment on what you said about users not being able to use bittorrent behind firewalls, it can be used and I've been doing it ever since it came out! You just need to allow port 6881 to transfer data to your computer. Here's a quote from the offical bittorrent site:
"I'm behind a firewall/NAT, can I use BitTorrent? Yes, but you will get better performance if other peers can connect to you. By default, BitTorrent listens on port 6881, trying incrementially higher ports if it's unable to bind, and gives up after 6889 (the port range is configurable). It's up to you to figure out how to poke a hole in your firewall/NAT."
It will work, users just have to configure their computers to allow it to work!
• No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-02-23 16:22:15 GMT)
"Mirrors are not always easy to find, but places such as ibiblio.org, tuwien.ac.at, sunet.se or planetmirror.com already host a large number of distributions, so a polite request for hosting yours is unlikely to be refused."
ftp.heanet.ie also hosts a fair number of distributions, and tends to be pretty quick for downloads. Just another option for distro developers to consider.
• Live CD (by MixMatch at 2004-02-23 16:34:32 GMT)
You did not mention this, but Mandrake and SuSE both offer liveCDs now... although they cannot be used themselves to make a hard disk installation, at least to my knowledge...
Sorcerer does not post news items because they do not release traditional distribution versions. The idea is that whatever iso you have can be used to get started and you can update your system from there.
• Kurumin (by Sergio at 2004-02-23 17:31:03 GMT)
I found a torrent link to Kurumin Games (and BTW, Ladislav, downloading with BitTorrent no problem, both with Windows and Linux-I have the Suse Firewall)
I was absolutely impressed.
Pity that (to my knowledge) it is only in Portuguese.
I wonder if they are going to translate it into English, it would be a shame not to.
• Kurumin, live cds (by Andrew at 2004-02-23 22:53:34 GMT)
I just tried Kurumin and my impression was, wow, I'd love to try using this thing - if only I could get it to switch to English! As is it, I'd have to first download KDE's english language pack, and since my NIC apparently wasn't recognized, I had to way of installing it, and no way of fixing the problem either - because I couldn't even figure out how to log in as root (what's the password?!?)
But it looks great - slick desktop, nice admin tools and great concept - small download (under 200mb), then install what you want... looks like it would be easy to install on HD, too.
Which brings me to my second point: Live CDs. Yes, for me they are first and foremost much improved installers. When I heard about Knoppix, my first thought was, "great - here's a way of installing Debian without battling their stupid installer!" For my own use, being able to run a system from a CD is merely icing on the cake, and one I hardly ever use at that.
• DistroWatch Weekly icon (by K on 2004-02-23 22:58:36 GMT)
Has Skolelinux icon has taken over the DistroWatch Weekly icon on the front page? It is certainly the case at this moment....
• Oops (by K on 2004-02-23 22:59:21 GMT)
A redundent "has" in my previous messages has occured.
• Re: Kurumin (by Andrew at 2004-02-23 23:25:09 GMT)
Sergio, and anyone else interested in trying Kurumin - consider doing what I just did: writing to creators of Kurumin and asking them for English support! You never know - they might be willing if they see there is interest...
• RE: Kurumin password (by ladislav at 2004-02-23 23:48:49 GMT)
You can set a new root password by pressing Ctrl+Alt+F2, then typing 'passwd' at the prompt. Once done, you can get back to your graphical screen by pressing Ctrl+Alt+F7.
• Damn Small Linux II (by Anonymous on 2004-02-24 00:22:09 GMT)
There's been a drastic change in DSL that makes it effectively worthless for console-based usage. The few utilities it had were replaced with an extremely light (or stripped) build of busybox. I'm not bashing busybox, just DSL for not giving us just a little bit more -- of anything. I mean come on, a few kb more you could have netcat or tabs in top... or maybe at least one parameter on any command...
Since dillo and toram are all DSL has going for it, from my perspective, I have no problem carrying only LNX-BBC. A damn fine bootable buisness card that includes 1,000+ console utilities and even a few for X.
Peace! =)
• RE:RE: Kurumin (by Andrew) (by Sergio at 2004-02-24 01:31:19 GMT)
Thanks. Good Idea. I'll do.
• Re: Damn Small Linux II (by Anonymous) (by Sergio at 2004-02-24 05:24:28 GMT)
Indeed.
John is a very nice guy, but he has this obsession with 'very small' ('damn small', actually) and he won't listen that a bit of more flexibility with size could make wonders.
That has been beautifully achieved by Feather linux, which 'looks' similar to DSL, but it is ways better, IMHO.
And then you have Kurumin, which I guess you could still consider 'smallish' and it is a dream.
• No subject (by all4one on 2004-02-24 06:08:56 GMT)
Onebase Linux 2004-r1 is not yet released. It should be in the upcoming release list.
Please wait for official ISO until it is announced publicly.
• Re:Damn Small Linux II (by Anonymous at 2004-02-24 10:01:12 GMT)
What is Damn Small Linux?
Damn Small Linux is a business card size (50MB) bootable Live CD Linux distribution. Despite its minuscule size it strives to have a functional and easy to use desktop.
I think the key words there are 50MB and desktop.
• RE:Re: Damn Small Linux II (by Anonymous) (by Sergio at 2004-02-24 10:41:57 GMT)
Yes, that is exactly the point: as a desktop it is useless. It is only a toy (not even a very nice one)
It doesn't even setup X properly.
Why Feather Linux, with a few MB more can be so much better?
Have you tried both?
And why this obsession with a business card size CD?
Who uses them? I have never seen one in my life and I live in a large city!
• Damn Small (by MixMatch on 2004-02-24 11:37:06 GMT)
Excuse me. I think I hear you bashing a guy for making something the way he likes it. Just because you and I don't use 'business card cds' doesn't mean nobody does. You have obviously discovered that there are many, many, many linux distributions available. Clearly, if you don't like one distribution, you can go to another... As a matter of fact, that is one of the primary reasons I use Distrowatch. With statements like "as a desktop it is useless" makes it clear that your opinion is useless.
• Giant List of LiveCDs (by Scott on 2004-02-24 13:30:43 GMT)
As reported on Slashdot almost a week ago, someone came up with a giant list of LiveCDs. I've tried googleing for livecds and have never been able to come up with such a huge list.
Check it out at http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php
Anyone interested in adding them all into Distrowatch? :)
• Re: Damn Small Linux II (by original thread poster on 2004-02-24 13:43:49 GMT)
MixMatch,
Someone said it above, he's a nice guy and this is the way he wanted the project to go. We're critiquing the project, not bashing the guy.
He envisioned a graphical desktop on the 50mb format with as many of the smallest graphical utilities that would fit. Everyone has their favorite apps and you'd be hard to find them, because each app chosen for a particular task was picked by size and category.. (spreadsheet, word, paint, burn..) So, full featured isn't in the equasion, just necessity for the x-based workstation.
My opinion on the distribution was regarding the console based functionality. Busybox fit perfectly with the theme.. include the tools, but cut the functionality for size. (for example, you have ls but not display -w wide format with -h human sizes) This fits excellent with the theme, but I felt this last release finally crossed the line for advanced recovery.
I would rate it for intermediate recovery.. mount and burn, both of which you could do in x. I draw the line when I say advanced, b/c you can't tar + gz + nc one system to another or grab a hex editor and set the partition tables straight. For those operations, I highly recommend LNX-BBC.
Regarding the other distrobutions, I haven't tried them all and I enjoy doing so. All the BBC and 3" distros are fine pieces of work. They are usually designed for the author or project team's needs, but we should all appreciate their effort to provided compatibility with other machines and distribute them.
Comments along the lines of "if you don't like it then stop complainging and use something else" are not constructive. Anyone who critiques or flat out says they're not using something, is already using something. If you do like a project, provide positive crticisim and contrast your views with others. The authors appreciate the good and the bad (sometimes). ;)
Salut!
(original thread poster)
• Tiny Linux Fetish (by Anonymous on 2004-02-24 13:57:03 GMT)
Who doesn't like cute little CDs? Sure, everyone has a hard drive, but these things are fun to play with. I only have 210mb cd-r & cdrw, so I usually have 150mb of free space.. still not sure what to do with it.
Collect them all. :)
• DamnSmall Linux (by Sergio at 2004-02-24 19:34:09 GMT)
I didn't want to offend John in any way.
When I said he is a nice guy I really meant it.
He is always there to help and he is very talented.
I wanted only to 'encourage' him to be 'more flexible with size'
But, hey, at the end of the day it is his distro.
• PClinuxOS (by tyga on 2004-02-24 19:39:03 GMT)
I was and still am, very impressed with PClinuxOS. I tried out Preview 4 and it detected all my hardware right away with no hastles, this is the first distro to do this. I have an nforce2 and an ATI radeon which have until now always been a hastle with linux OS's. Unfortunately the hard drive install didnt go so well but I think this is due to it being preview 4, I'll get preview 5 and try again. Cant wait until its fully mature.
Many thanks go to Texstar, great job.
• Re: Tiny Linux Fetish (by Anonymous) (by Sergio at 2004-02-24 19:46:03 GMT)
You really touched a sensitive area, there.
There aren't many distro designed to fit 210 MB CDs.
And yet they could become very popular, IMHO.
As I already said, Kurumin is a very good instance, if only they make an English version.
• Kurumin Linux (by Homeyzzz at 2004-02-24 20:19:45 GMT)
Wow,what a very nice intuitive and polished distro.
Managed to install it and apt-get install English(Kindof)
A English version of this distro would be a permenant install.
• Re: Tiny Linux Fetish (by Anonymous on 2004-02-24 21:22:18 GMT)
Something I would like to find.. a rewritable business card.. yeaah
• Sergio's Feather Linux (by Anonymous at 2004-02-24 22:14:25 GMT)
Sergio keeps posting everywhere how great Feather Linux is.
Everytime I have downloaded it, too many things are broken to be useful. They are listed in their "problems" section of their support board. Yet another new release with a few more apps. But not the fixes we are waiting for. I guess it is always easier to add a few apps than to fix the outstanding issues. And Sergio, Feather copied the X programs and setup from John's Damn Small Linux. So much for your claims and bashing the system that was copied from.
• Re: Sergio's Feather Linux (by Anonymous) (by Sergio at 2004-02-24 23:11:59 GMT)
My understanding is that Feather is based on a more recent version of Knoppix.
I have two computers: a 2 years old laptop and a brandnew desktop.
Feather will configure correctly everything on both (the most impressive feature being that it will put ABSOLUTELY everything in the lilo menu).
DSL will fail to configure X on my desktop.
So obviously they cannot be the same.
Besides I'd like to know where I am posting 'everywhere' how great Feather is, except for this issue of Distrowatch Weekly and for the Feather linux forum itself (posted there only a couple of times).
And finally I have already said that I appreciate the work that John has done and still does. This should be enough, I believe.
• Re: Sergio's Feather Linux (by Anonymous) (by Anonymous on 2004-02-25 01:14:59 GMT)
Sergio, You first made those claims on Linux.com when Damn Small was reviewed. The lilo claim is a Knoppix feature nothing to do with Feather. The latest Damn Small has inheirted the same lilo features from the Knoppix upgrade. Damn Small Linux was the FIRST to use Kdrive Tiny X server in a Knoppix environment. Flonix and Feather among others COPIED that work. Now, Damn Small Linux is the FIRST to use Busybox in a Knoppix environment. Pretty amazing that all the familiar desktop programs work in the new environment. Damn Small continues to pioneer. and continues to be damn small.
• Re: Sergio's Feather Linux (by Anonymous) (by Sergio on 2004-02-25 03:34:33 GMT)
Your main concern seems to be that DSL was 'COPIED' (you are shouting that)
That happens with linux, I am afraid.
Mandrake 'copied' Red Hat and now it has more users and a much better desktop, IMHO.
The GPL allows competition and therefore improvement, thanks goodness.
Otherwise today we would have only 3 or 4 distros at most.
• Re: Sergio's Feather Linux (by Anonymous) (by Anonymous on 2004-02-25 07:41:03 GMT)
I am sure that you will want the last word, that seems to be a given. But, YOU, made the claim that DSL doesn't setup X properly whereas Feather does. Yet those are the very programs that were copied including all the setup screens. Then you say thats OK because of the GPL. Then you bring up how other distro that copied the orginal are better. Maybe because Feather run everything as root and still has broken programs that I cannot take it seriously. it is obvious that we have a difference of opinon. Enjoy your Feathers, but don't bite the hand that feeds you.
-=Peace=-
• DSL (by MixMatch on 2004-02-25 11:02:46 GMT)
my point was that there is a line between critiquing a distribution and insulting it, and Sergio crossed it. That has nothing to do with the actual discussion over whether or noth DSL developer made a good decision, or what features Feather has or does not have. Every distribution on the market has a distinct purpose and targeted userbase. Its not like Micro$oft, which strives to take over the computer industry with its product.
DSL says nowhere that its purpose is a rescue cd. In that respect, don't expect it to be one. Instead, use:
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=systemrescue
If I said DSL doesn't provide the 'full' desktop experience for me, so it sucks, then I would just be talking rubbish. Why? Well, that is clearly not the point.
All that to say, if you don't like the way things are done in a distributions, you should give feeback to the development community, not go around the community sites bashing the distro. The least you could do is encourage the community to try to convince the developer(s) to change things to what is best for everybody...
As for me, I don't use binary distributions anymore. I'm happly running sorcerer on my boxen, and they are configured just the way I like them. Personally I got tired of going through the update process every time a new version of a distribution was released. Rather than going around bashing all the binary distributions because they didn't do things the way I thought was best, I simply switched over. That is not some radical recommendation, it is the logical thing to do when you do not like a disribution, or find one that is better.
• About bashing distros and human beings. (by Sergio on 2004-02-25 12:25:05 GMT)
Nobody noticed that I had tried to apologize, explain and cool things down.
Instead they had to carry on.
I call this 'real bashing'
I also stated clearly that I wish John were more flexible with size.
This is in my opinion constructive criticism.
If I bother to spend my time it means that I had found much positive about that distro.
When I never mention a distro it means either that I have never tried it or that I found it such a rubbish that it is not worth my time.
And finally it wouldn't be such a bad idea if you could run LiveCDs as root by default, because you 'might' want to use them as rescue CD, even if they were not made specifically for that purpose. And besides, what do you risk?
• Business Card Distro's (by anon on 2004-02-25 23:51:17 GMT)
The problem with all these business card distros is that buying blank business card CD's is quite difficult in some countries!! I haven't been able to find these in Sydney (Australia), so I use the cute looking 210meg CD's.
Would you even trust a business card CD in your wallet? I recon it would last a few weeks before it would be warped or scratched.
I'd prefer all these "Under 50meg" distro's convert to being "Under 210meg" giving the users more with the only downside being you can't have it on a small CD.
What about Business Card sized DVD's?? How much space would that be? I'm estimating around 300megs, why not prepare for this by raising the bar to 210megs while we wait for CD's to be completely replaced by DVD's...
• Re:Business Card Distros (by anon) (by FedUpPenguin on 2004-02-26 02:26:07 GMT)
The voice of common sense.
Don't expect many developers to follow your advice yet, because at the moment it is not 'cool' to do so.
Fashion, empty dogmas and fanatic devotion to your favourite distro are some of the pleasures you can enjoy in the wonderful world of Linux.
• Re: DSL (by MixMatch on 2004-02-25 11:02:46 GMT) (by jlowell at 2004-02-26 04:57:50 GMT)
MixMatch writes:
"Rather than going around bashing all the binary distributions because they didn't do things the way I thought was best, I simply switched over. That is not some radical recommendation, it is the logical thing to do when you do not like a disribution, or find one that is better."
Switching from anywhere else to Sorcerer is logical? :-)
jlowell
• Kurumin screenshot (by bhhenry at 2004-02-26 05:28:58 GMT)
What is that incredible transparent icon bar above kicker in the Kurumin screenshot? I must have it ;)
• RE:Kurumin screenshot (by bhhenry) (by Sergio on 2004-02-26 05:39:48 GMT)
It is beautiful indeed and wait until you have seen the real thing!
• Another benefit of live-CDs: (by Vintermann at 2004-02-26 11:20:03 GMT)
There is a lot of weird hardware out there, and it can appear in a gazillion different configurations. A standard linux installation CD is usually used on one machine or a dozen very homogenous machines. Live CD's however, are usually tested on ever machine the owner can (safely ;-) lay his hands on.
This should provide an excellent resource to debug hardware detection and initialization scripts. The larger the "installation" base, the more bugs are detected. That is why even Red Hat should have a live-CD IMHO. They help discover the trouble areas, not just for the careful laptop buyer, but for the distribution maintainers.
• Little CD Fetish (by CDNut on 2004-02-26 13:00:58 GMT)
My comment about what to do with the 150mb of free space when buring a 50mb distro to a 3" wasn't for the developers. I'm wondering what _I_ could use that space for when rebuilding the ISO. That's enough room for a base + network install of Slackware 9.1 and 50mb to spare, but that doesn't fit the little CD's purpose. 150mb could hold Perl Jam Ten and two other albums.
Other ideas: saving img.gz files of important floppies (boot dics, distro install discs, dos discs), eBooks (i'm not really into that, but i have plenty of documentation I could squeeze in), someone mentioned VMWare.. fitting in a nice virtual machine would be sueet
• Small is not only for the size of the CD (by grep4me on 2004-02-28 07:12:48 GMT)
One thing that is cool about the very small LiveCDs is the ability to run them entirely in ram. Did you ever try to run Knoppix3.3 with the "toram" boot option. What kind of a monster machine would you need. So the smaller the distro the quicker and less ram you need to run "silently" entirely in ram. Now that's cool.
• Re: Small is not only for...(by grep4me) (by FedUpPenguin on 2004-02-28 16:48:04 GMT)
Actually I have run GNUstep in RAM, and it is not that small. I have even played games!
• Kurumin in English (by Carlos E. Morimoto at 2004-02-29 00:12:25 GMT)
The main objective of Kurumin is to provide a very localized distro, combining descritive menus, scripts to automatize the most used tasks, precompiled drivers for various pheripherals common here in Brazil and so on.
There is already a lot o excelent english distribuitions, so I prefer to concentrate the development in providing a good localized distro, than to provide just another general one
But you can install kde-18n and locale via apt-get to get international support, it is very easy afther an HD install. The great problem is to internacionalize the config scripts, because there is no many of then, almost 400 on 2.20.
• Re: Kurumin in English (by Carlos E. Morimoto) (by Sergio at 2004-02-29 01:58:49 GMT)
First of all thanks a lot for posting here and congratulations for what is one of best live CDs, if not one of the best distros I have ever tried (and believe me, I have tried many)
If it were in English I'd install it on my HD and I'd happily buy Kurumin, if you made a commercial edition.
I don't want to sound pompous, but you are nothing short of a genius if you can make something so beautiful and polished on your own.
I have done what you suggest,installing kde-18n, but it doesn't help very much, because most things remain in Portuguese, beautiful language, but for somebody who doesn't understand it...
I wonder if you could find somebody who understands Portuguese and whose first language is English to volunteer for the translation. Unfortunately my mother tongue is Italian and my second one is English, otherwise I'd volunteer myself.
• Any Gentoo Live CD? (by Jalil on 2004-02-29 05:18:51 GMT)
Is there any Live CD for Gentoo (or FreeBSD) which is similar to Knoppix, would love to try it as well.
• Re:Any Gentoo Live CD? (by Jalil) (by Sergio on 2004-02-29 06:09:32 GMT)
I am afraid that the answer is 'no' (generally speaking)
There is an experimental kde/gnome Gentoo LiveCD, but it is very buggy and I can't make it work.
Jollix is the nearest you can get to a Gentoo LiveCD.
Or else UT or America's army Live were made by Gentoo.
As to BSDs I know that somebody is making one (not sure which flavour of BSD) but I have no idea how long it will take.
• Jolix (a Gentoo based Live CD). (by Jalil on 2004-02-29 15:16:01 GMT)
Thanks Sergio for mentioning Jolix (http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=Jolix), I'm downloading it at the moment.
• Re:Jollix (byJalil) (by Sergio on 2004-02-29 19:12:36 GMT)
You are welcome! :-)
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